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Have you experienced the shift hiccup issue with your Redeye?

Have you experienced the shift hiccup issue with your Redeye?


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DRAGRCR

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#41
I heard/read in a @hellno post (He swapped his out for a Demon converter....and he has some small knowledge on tranny's. LOL.) the trannys were mechanically identical except for the converters. The Demon supposedly has a looser converter, so even if they put the Demon calibration in the RE tranny would the converter lock-up difference effect anything?
I was under the impression that the RedEye has the Demon Converter from the factory. I am not up to speed on this. Maybe @hellno was putting a Demon Converter in a Hellact. Yes I would think the Hardware is nearly identical. In the Demon they delay the Converter lockup to improve performance. In the RedEye I am pretty sure it locks right after the hit. I have never actually felt it lock because of this. In the Demon it locks probably 2/3 of the way through first gear. It can spin the tires on converter lockup at that higher RPM and in that case it will feel like it shifted to a higher gear (but NEVER a hiccup). My Demon did this twice on those last runs in Houston without a 1-2 hiccup and the Demon I resently drove at Irwindale did it on one pass with a 1-2 hiccup. This is what caused me to mis-describe my problem as the 2-3 shift hiccup early on. But the Dash Cam video showed it was the 1-2 shift. You really have to pay attention and sometimes you can get off track.

If I do a full on trans tune in the future this will be part of that tune. I want a copy and paste tune with some refinements or a full on tune that will mimic what the Demon is doing.
 


why2kmax

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#42
does anyone have a video of this hiccup or what it looks/sounds/smells like?
 


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#43
does anyone have a video of this hiccup or what it looks/sounds/smells like?
Here is the video that @DRAGRCR posted on Youtube. My 2019 Redeye is doing the exact same thing as in this video also. I did purchase an unlock pcm and going to get to the bottom of it also ASAP!!
 


why2kmax

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#44
ahhh excellent example Thank you for the link
 


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#45
Torque management.



For driving in the rain.
 


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#46
Damn... would not be happy with FCA. Is this happening on all Redeyes?
 


Illegal_Demon

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#47
Yes a lot of the Demons would hiccup on the shifts. But it's more of a rev limit anticipation because it's spinning. So it will vary with track prep and tires. In January at Houston I heard a lot of Demons hiccup on the shifts. I watched car after car do it. But many were running the nittos. I have also heard some go down the track without hiccups and Chirp, Chirp, Chirp, and even chirp going into 5th. Absolutely the Demon has a different program. All the media releases described the differences. They slowed the shifts down from 90 milliseconds to 140 and they delayed converter lockup, they shift harder and so on. The Demon seemed to have more or maybe more refined adaptives. So it seems a lot would hiccup and then eventually they would fine tune the shifts and stop doing it. It can be confusing because down track prep can greatly affect this. There have been times the car was screwing up big time and the next week it was perfect. That confirms track prep is the issue. I was having a really hard time in January at Extreme Raceway Park and I was certain there was something wrong with the car. It took a whole night of frustration to finally figure out it was track prep. I finally had a run later that night where they prepped the track right in front of me and then let me run a single. I think Demonology set that up for me maybe. Well, the car laid down a 6.16 on that pass. Problem solved. The next week at Houston I ran the 9.55 and that was a smooth uneventful pass. You almost would not know it. The week before I ran 143 twice at Dallas / Ennis. But when I got to Legions / Houston the Da was really good and the car started hiccuping again on almost every pass. I fought it all weekend and it never made a good pass in the low DA . I was pissed because those Guys beat my time and the car was not working right. And I know the prep was on point and the conditions were better than when I ran the 9.55. I had access the the very best track conditions. Period. What I believe was happening was I had the Hoosiers and Win Lites on the car. The Hoosiers were considerably lighter and they were shorter @ 28". Then in the -1200 to -1400 DA the car started anticipating an overrev on every run. That new setup combined with the exceptional DA was too much. I finally did a Capactive Discharge on the last Day, Monday at Lunch time. That started the car out fresh and then it could learn that new setup without any previous learned data. Then between 1:30 and 3:30 with -500 DA and the track prep going away (they refused to prep the track any more) I made 8 passes. It only hiccuped once and that was appropriate with the track conditions. So, 1 hiccup in 8 runs after having done it on every run that morning. It put up a 9.59, 9.60, 9.65, 9.63, 9.63, 9.62, 9.65 . During those runs it actually spun on 2 runs when it locked the converter but no hiccup. That morning in -1200 to -1400 DA the best it ran was a 9.68. So dissappointing.

My Redeye is not spinning. Track prep and tires were on point. So it's torque management or the fact that I took some weight out combined with a strong motor causing an overrev anticipation. But my car is not that light. And it came from Dodge with a rear seat delete. Plus it hiccupped the same every time. I would think at least a couple of the 9 runs I made last time out would be clean if it was track prep. It does have quite a bit taller tires that would mitigate an overrev anticipation some. I cannot stress this enough. This car has a Demon motor but shifts like a Hellcat. I really think they screwed this up or maybe they went all Ricky Bobby on the Torque management to save warranty claims. My Hellcat did not do this, and for the most part my Demon did not do this. The Demon had 674 runs on it and I bet 90% of them were perfect if not amazing. And the times that it did hiccup were valid and I know why it was doing it. I bet this RedEye will do this on every run from now on.

I also will point out that the RedEyes doing this on the street is most likely overrev anticipation due to traction loss. I consider that somewhat normal and that does not concern me. But I have to wonder with @DGatzby road racing if the tires eventually warm up enough to grip. Not sure if his car should or should not be doing this road racing. If it shifted hard with no hiccup @ WOT I wonder if it would just jump into stability control intervention. I have had older automatic cars that would shift hard and they would drift like a MoFo when shifting at WOT when turning. Ask me how I know :rolleyes:

I did specifically tell that FCA Rep that they should just load the Demon Transmission Calibration in my car and be done with it. It would Frikkin Haul Ass.

.
Thanks for sharing Ron. Extremely frustrating I'm sure. I also bet FCA didn't think many people would notice or care about the Ricky Bobby penny-pinching move.

So....Now the question remains....Are you going to keep the RE or are you swapping back to the Demon?
 


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#48
Here is the video that @DRAGRCR posted on Youtube. My 2019 Redeye is doing the exact same thing as in this video also. I did purchase an unlock pcm and going to get to the bottom of it also ASAP!!
thanks for the apples to apple comp...but yeah...that definitely blows...
 


DRAGRCR

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#49
Thanks for sharing Ron. Extremely frustrating I'm sure. I also bet FCA didn't think many people would notice or care about the Ricky Bobby penny-pinching move.

So....Now the question remains....Are you going to keep the RE or are you swapping back to the Demon?
I already told FCA I am planning on keeping the RedEye because it hauls ass (except the Hiccup). Right now I am giving them a reasonable amount of time to fix it. The last time we talked I basically told them if they plan on restricting my Warranty then they better figure out a way to fix it themselves. Otherwise we are going to lock horns. He seems to be making some progress. Lets see what they come up with.
 


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#50
I did find a video or two from this weekend that did not have the annoying GoPro Chinese junk connector chatter. I put this compilation together so everyone could hear a Redeye running through some gears. I don’t have any 1-2 shifts, but here are a few from probably third and up on the long straights at Road America on Sunday afternoon. It really was running fine and I must admit, unfortunately this won’t do us any good asking for the “hiccup” to stop, because if we show them this, they may think we are crazy. Well we are! In real time especially running up the hill on the long straight, it felt worse than it sounds. There is a loud “pop” or two you may hear in the few corners in the video. Don’t let it worry anyone. We believe it is the only OEM pieces remaining on the front suspension - the OEM links. It is not body flex. They will be replaced sometime this weekend then I’ll test and verify we have the solution. Then look out BIR, I’m coming back! This also demonstrates a big warm pair of Cup 2’s will eliminate any problem with traction.

 


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#51
2019 WBRE 3.09 gears, stock tires. Stall, hesitation in track and street during WOT. Took it to a dealer and couldn't get the car to do it with the technician riding along (How do cars always know?) Tech told me about a new program flash so we installed that. Flash was for unrelated items, but the tech said that sometimes FCA will add an additional fix not listed in the documentation. Too few miles to know if the problems is fixed or just hibernating!
 


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#52
I did find a video or two from this weekend that did not have the annoying GoPro Chinese junk connector chatter. I put this compilation together so everyone could hear a Redeye running through some gears. I don’t have any 1-2 shifts, but here are a few from probably third and up on the long straights at Road America on Sunday afternoon. It really was running fine and I must admit, unfortunately this won’t do us any good asking for the “hiccup” to stop, because if we show them this, they may think we are crazy. Well we are! In real time especially running up the hill on the long straight, it felt worse than it sounds. There is a loud “pop” or two you may hear in the few corners in the video. Don’t let it worry anyone. We believe it is the only OEM pieces remaining on the front suspension - the OEM links. It is not body flex. They will be replaced sometime this weekend then I’ll test and verify we have the solution. Then look out BIR, I’m coming back! This also demonstrates a big warm pair of Cup 2’s will eliminate any problem with traction.

That car sounds crisp to me. My hiccup was a real lay-down, stumble, fumble then back on full motor type of thing. BTW what is the thought behind the stock links making that noise? Bushings shot from the hard running?
 


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#53
That car sounds crisp to me. My hiccup was a real lay-down, stumble, fumble then back on full motor type of thing. BTW what is the thought behind the stock links making that noise? Bushings shot from the hard running?
Thanks. Like I said it runs fine for my purposes. There is plenty of power to have fun with on the big smooth courses. Different when every tenth of a second counts.

Well, it is not the links! Matter of fact the often critiqued pencil thin links don’t look like they have a problem at all. This thing has not been driven that much on the street or courses yet. I Installed different links, inspected everything again and I cannot see anything wrong. It has this what seems like getting louder and more easy to reproduce POP, just about under my feet, or right down where the sway bar action is. I am going to check everything again, and probably loosen and retighten the sway bar bushings and mounts again. Then I will need to turn it over to the boys at the dealer. They have some good technicians and they can take that damn entire front cradle loose for all I care. But for $92k I expect it to stand up better. Now these Redeye’s show their program for drag racing is potentially flawed and if you want to try lefts and rights they fail also!

Or, what if BMR has a hollow sway bar they sold me that is making a strange noise when flexed?? It only makes the noise when turning aggressively.
 


coolblue

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#54
Thanks. Like I said it runs fine for my purposes. There is plenty of power to have fun with on the big smooth courses. Different when every tenth of a second counts.

Well, it is not the links! Matter of fact the often critiqued pencil thin links don’t look like they have a problem at all. This thing has not been driven that much on the street or courses yet. I Installed different links, inspected everything again and I cannot see anything wrong. It has this what seems like getting louder and more easy to reproduce POP, just about under my feet, or right down where the sway bar action is. I am going to check everything again, and probably loosen and retighten the sway bar bushings and mounts again. Then I will need to turn it over to the boys at the dealer. They have some good technicians and they can take that damn entire front cradle loose for all I care. But for $92k I expect it to stand up better. Now these Redeye’s show their program for drag racing is potentially flawed and if you want to try lefts and rights they fail also!

Or, what if BMR has a hollow sway bar they sold me that is making a strange noise when flexed?? It only makes the noise when turning aggressively.
Not to keep getting off topic, sorry OP but in my experiences when dealing with aftermarket replacement/perf parts always look there first. Good luck with finding and diagnosis.
 


DRAGRCR

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Thanks. Like I said it runs fine for my purposes. There is plenty of power to have fun with on the big smooth courses. Different when every tenth of a second counts.

Well, it is not the links! Matter of fact the often critiqued pencil thin links don’t look like they have a problem at all. This thing has not been driven that much on the street or courses yet. I Installed different links, inspected everything again and I cannot see anything wrong. It has this what seems like getting louder and more easy to reproduce POP, just about under my feet, or right down where the sway bar action is. I am going to check everything again, and probably loosen and retighten the sway bar bushings and mounts again. Then I will need to turn it over to the boys at the dealer. They have some good technicians and they can take that damn entire front cradle loose for all I care. But for $92k I expect it to stand up better. Now these Redeye’s show their program for drag racing is potentially flawed and if you want to try lefts and rights they fail also!

Or, what if BMR has a hollow sway bar they sold me that is making a strange noise when flexed?? It only makes the noise when turning aggressively.
I have found that when you hear a noise, if you are sharp and really listen, it usually ends up being something really close to what you are thinking. I would look really closely with a strong light at the area under your feet and in the wheel well and trans tunnel for something (a tell tale) contacting the floorpan etc. Keep in mind sometimes things could be minor and sound terrible in the car. Like when a rear tire contacts those plastic wheel tubs. You can really hear that inside the car surprisingly well.
 


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#56
I did find a video or two from this weekend that did not have the annoying GoPro Chinese junk connector chatter. I put this compilation together so everyone could hear a Redeye running through some gears. I don’t have any 1-2 shifts, but here are a few from probably third and up on the long straights at Road America on Sunday afternoon. It really was running fine and I must admit, unfortunately this won’t do us any good asking for the “hiccup” to stop, because if we show them this, they may think we are crazy. Well we are! In real time especially running up the hill on the long straight, it felt worse than it sounds. There is a loud “pop” or two you may hear in the few corners in the video. Don’t let it worry anyone. We believe it is the only OEM pieces remaining on the front suspension - the OEM links. It is not body flex. They will be replaced sometime this weekend then I’ll test and verify we have the solution. Then look out BIR, I’m coming back! This also demonstrates a big warm pair of Cup 2’s will eliminate any problem with traction.

Wow. That was awesome...Thx for sharing!

I felt like I was in a HD video game...I gotta take my Demon to a track now.
 


DGatzby

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#57
Thanks gentlemen. @coolblue good advice. @DRAGRCR also correct. I was thinking like a combo of your suggestions today when I put the gloves on. Ron the noise was there, I also practice what you say, damn it, the noise is coming from here. Took the aftermarket sway bar off, cleaned the large bushing and reapplied grease on that unit. Carefully reinstalled everything. The pop is gone! Seems the bushings may have been squeezing down, the grease probably got hot when the supercharger bushing got smoked in May, so the relatively little small noise from that bushing/steel slip-stick really gets amplified in the car.

73BB1355-CA5D-4D77-80F2-85D9B6587473.jpeg
So glad you guys like the video, that is really turning a RE loose. I’ll have much better audio from BIR next Monday along with a speed overlay and even faster speeds down that straight. The RE should see 165-170 mph in less than every two minutes if everything is right. So we can get back to the business of the hiccup now,
 


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#58
Does it sound like my car is doing it also??? I am going to take a video from inside the car next time I am at the track. Now I am worried too. Dammit!
 


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#59
Does not sound like it to me, but that's across the track and with wind noise. Didn't sound like the shift was hesitating to me.
 


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#60
Does not sound like it to me, but that's across the track and with wind noise. Didn't sound like the shift was hesitating to me.
DRAGRCR has got me all worried now:LOL: If my car is not doing it then we need to compare data logs.
 




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