3.8 whipple

[JDSHellcat]

Will be going with the triple pump setup; in case I want to grow at all later. RGPIII is correct. Going with 4" pulley for the 93-octane tune and 3.4 for the race gas which will be Q16. Will be running 1340 injectors. I'm in the trucking industry and we buy a lot of diesel, so I get a decent deal on a drum of Q16. The E85 out by me is suspect, I have a drum of X85 I'm running in the car right now, which isn't often as the weather sucks. Appreciate the heads up on Spark Plugs and O2 Sensors.

 

[JDSHellcat]

by the drum I'm paying $17.70 gallon for the Q16, which is still high. I don't plan on racing every weekend with it but will try and do something once a month for sure. Just got my first Drum in on Tuesday.

 

[Marc W]

Will need at least 2150's, triple pumps, and 2 baps.

Back when I was using the drop-in Fore pumps for the 426/Whipple 4.5, we had a conversation with Fore about whether the BAP was necessary. They said (quote) Don’t ever put one of those f’ing things on our pumps. They said their triple set was good for 1700hp. We made 1200+ at the wheels without the BAP and had plenty using Ignite E90. Just saying what they said. 🙃

 

[RGPIII]

Back when I was using the drop-in Fore pumps for the 426/Whipple 4.5, we had a conversation with Fore about whether the BAP was necessary. They said (quote) Don’t ever put one of those f’ing things on our pumps. They said their triple set was good for 1700hp. We made 1200+ at the wheels without the BAP and had plenty using Ignite E90. Just saying what they said. 🙃

I maxed out their triple pumps on a set of 1700's and a 3.0 Whipple. No chance they can supply the needed fuel to a 3.8 with 2150's without baps. A single brushless would be ideal but they are failure prone.

 

[cole3986]

Check the rotors. Two easy ways to do that. Pull the lid to see the rear or pull the throttle body to check the front (easiest). The original billet version in the first picture. It’s got 30 passes plus dyno time on it now and makes a ton of power. Over 1400whp at 3000’ elevation thru a T400. It’s still in perfect condition. The second picture is thru the front of another that started eating itself. We’ve found that they don’t like rpm. Anything smaller than a 3.50 pulley is a problem. Stay tuned. It’s a saga. 😂 View attachment 132919 View attachment 132920

Marc,

How to tell if the unit is billet? Is there a serial number that indicates that it is billet or can it be determined visually?

 

[Marc W]

I maxed out their triple pumps on a set of 1700's and a 3.0 Whipple. No chance they can supply the needed fuel to a 3.8 with 2150's without baps. A single brushless would be ideal but they are failure prone.

Interesting. Maybe they were just pissed at KB 😂 That’s all so far behind me I can hardly remember. I have the Aeromotive brushless now and about to outgrow that 😣

 

[RGPIII]

Interesting. Maybe they were just pissed at KB 😂 That’s all so far behind me I can hardly remember. I have the Aeromotive brushless now and about to outgrow that 😣

yeah I was never a fan of the KB baps. These JMS baps are awesome units. fully plug and play and use peddle position instead of a hobbs switch. ID makes a brushless kit to handle 2khp on Ethanol, just no one makes the hat for the hellcats yet. radium makes it for the mustangs.

 

[Marc W]

Marc,

How to tell if the unit is billet? Is there a serial number that indicates that it is billet or can it be determined visually?

Pull the lid off and you can see the CNC tool marks here and there. The inside has that jewelry appearance compared to the cast look. Here’s my Billet inside….

 

[cole3986]

Pull the lid off and you can see the CNC tool marks here and there. The inside has that jewelry appearance compared to the cast look. Here’s my Billet inside…. View attachment 133217 View attachment 133218

Thanks for the information, I am pushing real hard to make Dan's event on April 5 and just dusted off the whipple box, I purchased it a few years ago when they first were released for Dodges.

 

[Marc W]

Thanks for the information, I am pushing real hard to make Dan's event on April 5 and just dusted off the whipple box, I purchased it a few years ago when they first were released for Dodges.

. You probably got one of the original billets. Mine was one of the first 10. It made huge hp compared to the cast “Gen 6” versions we’ve been struggling with. It hasn’t had any of the self destruction issues and is still undamaged after about 20 passes. Granted that’s not a lot but hopeful that it’s right. Only advice I can give from our 3.8 testing is… don’t go smaller than a 3.50 with the +10 at the crank. Good luck 🍀

 

[fubar569]

BAH. stop making me want to do dumb stuff. Both of you.

 

[cole3986]

. You probably got one of the original billets. Mine was one of the first 10. It made huge hp compared to the cast “Gen 6” versions we’ve been struggling with. It hasn’t had any of the self destruction issues and is still undamaged after about 20 passes. Granted that’s not a lot but hopeful that it’s right. Only advice I can give from our 3.8 testing is… don’t go smaller than a 3.50 with the +10 at the crank. Good luck 🍀

I was about to order a 3 inch diameter pulley, the advice is very much appreciated, I might be getting old, driving 12 hours to the event to break it on the 1st or 2nd pass is hmmmmmmm. I heard the failure rate is 75%, not sure how whipple stays in business if that is the failure rate.

FYI- my understanding is that Kenny Bell got bought out and that is why there is no new stuff coming from them.

 

[RGPIII]

Sadly even with a 3.5/ 10% my 6th one failed in less than 3 1/8 mile passes. They seem to have a new design in the works with no ETA at the moment.

 

[vortecd]

Interesting equation from a cost standpoint. The E85/426 with a 3.8 Whipple combination is starting to require injectors that are not going work with pump gas to drive on the street. At some point the injectors needed for 1500hp ethanol motors are too big for pump gas. Does anybody have that combination running on the street with pump gas using 2150 or bigger injectors? Also…. Interesting side on injectors. Everybody is looking at ID and FIC injectors. You all know that they are Bosch injectors with pixie dust sprinkled to double the price. Right? We use the same Bosch injectors with the same flow match pixie dust from FIVE0 Motorsport Injectors in California. 2200cc at 45 psi - 2550cc at 58 psi. Do the math. A set of eight is $1400. View attachment 133212 View attachment 133213 View attachment 133214

Pixie dust is what helps my heavy car even move. @Jon-MooredPerformanceLLC has his car running on pump gas this winter with 2150s

 

[RGPIII]

Interesting equation from a cost standpoint. The E85/426 with a 3.8 Whipple combination is starting to require injectors that are not going work with pump gas to drive on the street. At some point the injectors needed for 1500hp ethanol motors are too big for pump gas. Does anybody have that combination running on the street with pump gas using 2150 or bigger injectors? Also…. Interesting side on injectors. Everybody is looking at ID and FIC injectors. You all know that they are Bosch injectors with pixie dust sprinkled to double the price. Right? We use the same Bosch injectors with the same flow match pixie dust from FIVE0 Motorsport Injectors in California. 2200cc at 45 psi - 2550cc at 58 psi. Do the math. A set of eight is $1400.

@Marc W you run these? they look to be rated for more than the 2150's and look to be stainless for use with Ethanol? id be inclined to switch personally.

 

[Marc W]

@Marc W you run these? they look to be rated for more than the 2150's and look to be stainless for use with Ethanol? id be inclined to switch personally.

Yes. They are good for everything (including Methanol). Seeing that we are operating at the 58+ psi they are really 2600cc. My new manifold for the turbos has dual injector capability, so I have 16 of those for 5200cc for Methanol when we decide to go there. Adam (Spankintime) has used this FIVE0 guy for injectors for years and that’s all he’ll run. This injector is approx $1400 (retail) for a set of eight. Check what HHP gets for ID2600’s. They come flow matched as a set and a no BS warranty and apparently (according to Adam) he’s great to work with.

 

[fubar569]

Yes. They are good for everything (including Methanol). Seeing that we are operating at the 58+ psi they are really 2600cc. My new manifold for the turbos has dual injector capability, so I have 16 of those for 5200cc for Methanol when we decide to go there. Adam (Spankintime) has used this FIVE0 guy for injectors for years and that’s all he’ll run. This injector is approx $1400 (retail) for a set of eight. Check what HHP gets for ID2600’s. They come flow matched as a set and a no BS warranty and apparently (according to Adam) he’s great to work with.

Obviously they tune well. They come with full data? Wonder if any of the popular tooners will touch em?

 

[Marc W]

Obviously they tune well. They come with full data? Wonder if any of the popular tooners will touch em?

The Mopar/Hellcat world is a small one. A handful of known people that everybody recognizes and go to for building and tuning. Outside of that is a universe by comparison of people building and tuning race cars. Fords and Chevys and all those ricers. While Adam has focused on Mopar, he has done this for 30 years and knows a lot of the people out there. He can tune anything and has probably taught some of those known and respected tuners stuff that they wouldn’t want to admit to. I don’t know if the “Hellcat tuners” would want to touch these. I remember when they wouldn’t do anything but Injector Dynamics and not touch the FIC’s.

 

[cole3986]

Yes. They are good for everything (including Methanol). Seeing that we are operating at the 58+ psi they are really 2600cc. My new manifold for the turbos has dual injector capability, so I have 16 of those for 5200cc for Methanol when we decide to go there. Adam (Spankintime) has used this FIVE0 guy for injectors for years and that’s all he’ll run. This injector is approx $1400 (retail) for a set of eight. Check what HHP gets for ID2600’s. They come flow matched as a set and a no BS warranty and apparently (according to Adam) he’s great to work with.

Marc,

You sold me, what model number are the 2200 cc injectors? The photo you posted? I get screwed up on the terminals and needed voltage for the correct injectors (I don't want to order the wrong ones).

 

[Marc W]

Marc,

You sold me, what model number are the 2200 cc injectors? The photo you posted? I get screwed up on the terminals and needed voltage for the correct injectors (I don't want to order the wrong ones).

My best advice would be to contact FIVE0 on the phone and have the conversation with the owner. He would make sure you get exactly what you need and will probably answer questions you don’t know you have at this point. Injectors are complicated little things and he knows everything there is to know about all that. Search Five0motorsport and check out their website. You’ll see this is the real deal in the world of injectors. I know what I have are EV-14 injectors (fits common 14mm bore) and the part number I’m seeing is 0280158800-2200. They are rated at 2200 cc/min. That’s at 45 psi which I guess is what they use to label the injectors. You’ll just want to clarify with him that you’ll get the proper length and connectors for the Hellcat harness.