Dodge Hellcat V8s to die in 2023 due to government fines

[TNREDEYE]

Because Dodge is discontinuing the V8 power plant.

That's just sad.

 

[2pac]

Just curious why all the Explorer ST love? A Durango SRT has 485 HP I believe? Personal preference? Easier tuning possibilities? Not hating. Just wondering.

I have driven all 3

Durango srt
Durango hellcat
Explorer St

I had actually picked up a durango hellcat for my mom, she drove it for no less than 3 weeks and I flipped it for more money than they could refuse.

Keep in mind that they are all big ass 3 row suv's, the explorer drives more like a car than either the srt or the hellcat.

Durango just got an update but it's tech is still behind, seems like a common theme regarding fca products.

The srt/hellcat are awesome cars but with the durango hellcat pushing 95k+ it's fighting with the x5m's and gle63's of the world. The Srt is in no mans land at 75-80k well equipped, you are better off going to the hellcat.

The explorer is a much more bang for buck kind of vehicle.

It will always be easier to get more "easy" power out of forced induction engines, so kick out the srt for now. A tune on the hellcat/edge ST do wonders.

So basically the explorer st handles better, can be modified with simple bolt ons and a tune, and has the better tech/interior.

Roughly 60k for a loaded st + tune ($500ish) + intercooler ($600) + intake ($500) should get you damn near hellcat performance.

 

[2pac]

That's just sad.

Epa fuel regs baby! Not a fan of this electric push simply because the infrastructure is not there yet.

 

[thetalonguy]

What’s the stoutness of the Explorer ST engine? Can’t say I invest much time into looking at Fords. Just know I found a piece of a piston hanging out on my stepfather’s engine bay on his 2014/15 Mustang Ecoboost a couple months back. He had some minor mods and a tune, but nothing you’d think throw a piston through a block.

Are the V6’s built better? You used to have more room to work in boosted applications, but how much room nowadays? Are they building new ones with wiggle room?

 

[2pac]

What’s the stoutness of the Explorer ST engine? Can’t say I invest much time into looking at Fords. Just know I found a piece of a piston hanging out on my stepfather’s engine bay on his 2014/15 Mustang Ecoboost a couple months back. He had some minor mods and a tune, but nothing you’d think throw a piston through a block.

Are the V6’s built better? You used to have more room to work in boosted applications, but how much room nowadays? Are they building new ones with wiggle room?

I can't speak for jon or anyone else but we move through cars so quick as long as the tune is relatively safe I'm fine. This ST will be a bridge car for me in the winter until my charger hc comes in, and then it will be a bridge car for my mom while she waits on her '23 x7 m50i. Come this time next year It will probably be gone and I'll have written off the entire cost of ownership.

Gen 2 ecoboosts ('15 and up) are relatively stronger, there are tons of reputable tuners.

Keep in mind that the mustangs of that era don't get the 2.7, 3.0 or the 3.5 ecoboosts, I believe it got the 4 cylinder 2.3. The 2.7/3.0/3.5 are all 6 cylinders and are typically much stronger in terms of ability to tune and handle extra boost.

So really you are comparing a 4 banger to a 6 cylinder, there are a number of variables that could cause a tune to go wrong, we would have to figure out what went wrong and then understand the difference in engines to be able to tell what went wrong, I don't know these engines that intricately to be able to tell you that.

 

[NoCoHC]

Turbo Six's are cool. I've had several eco boost vehicles and my Buick GN back in the day. I think the Gen X and Baby Boomers which I would guess are the vast majority on here will grumble but if Dodge can appeal to the younger crowd they will be successful. I think that's going to be tough to do.

 

[HWDan]

V8 Hemi's aren't going anywhere yet. Expect to still see a Hemi available in the 2024+ redesign.

The 5.7 is the one on the chopping block and should be making way for an TT I6 offering better performance while the current v6 will drop for an I4. The 392 Hemi s expected to still live on. Of course there will be some torque assist, mild electrification, etc to boost fuel economy numbers. There is also a new ZF 8 speed with a built-in electric motor and good for AWD too, that Stellantis is banking on and starting production in 2022 (Jeep probably to start using it I assume).

Despite all the click-bait doom-and-gloom news articles, gas cars are still expected to make up about 70% of new car sales in 2030.

 

[jonx96]

What’s the stoutness of the Explorer ST engine? Can’t say I invest much time into looking at Fords. Just know I found a piece of a piston hanging out on my stepfather’s engine bay on his 2014/15 Mustang Ecoboost a couple months back. He had some minor mods and a tune, but nothing you’d think throw a piston through a block.

Are the V6’s built better? You used to have more room to work in boosted applications, but how much room nowadays? Are they building new ones with wiggle room?

There has been lots and lots of changes since the 13/14 ecoboost. The eco boost mustang is different that than this platform. Reliability has been a lot better in the newer ones. In 2018 they ditched direct injection and went port injection on the mustangs and trucks. Which really helped performance. The truck also got an improved turbo. The 3.0L started being used in 2020 on the explorer. I haven't seen a lot of engine issues with the 3.0L. 2020 had a trans issue but has since been fixed in 2021.
I don't know a whole lot on the reliability eco boost mustangs. I have a lot of tuning data on them. But they don't make near the power.
I never test drove an SRT Durango. I did test drive an R/T and as far as handling and performance the ST was much better. Similar price as well. By the time you add on the Tow n Go to the durango it gets pricey. The 5.7 really needs an update to keep up with the eco boost performance.

 

[2pac]

There has been lots and lots of changes since the 13/14 ecoboost. The eco boost mustang is different that than this platform. Reliability has been a lot better in the newer ones. In 2018 they ditched direct injection and went port injection on the mustangs and trucks. Which really helped performance. The truck also got an improved turbo. The 3.0L started being used in 2020 on the explorer. I haven't seen a lot of engine issues with the 3.0L. 2020 had a trans issue but has since been fixed in 2021.
I don't know a whole lot on the reliability eco boost mustangs. I have a lot of tuning data on them. But they don't make near the power.
I never test drove an SRT Durango. I did test drive an R/T and as far as handling and performance the ST was much better. Similar price as well. By the time you add on the Tow n Go to the durango it gets pricey. The 5.7 really needs an update to keep up with the eco boost performance.

Since we are touching on the trans issue I'll tag @ChargerChallenger for his experience on his st, provided he wants to join in on the convo.

Also this specific 3.0 debuted in the aviator/explorer and is a variant of the 2.7 ecoboost that was and still is in the f-150s

The 3.0 is basically a bored out 2.7 with longer piston strokes which has seen a lot of work in the f-150's and the new bronco's.

Also to note, the ecoboost mustang used a garrett twin scroll single turbo as compared to the twin turbo used in the ST.

 

[jonx96]

Since we are touching on the trans issue I'll tag @ChargerChallenger for his experience on his st, provided he wants to join in on the convo.

Also this specific 3.0 debuted in the aviator/explorer and is a variant of the 2.7 ecoboost that was and still is in the f-150s

The 3.0 is basically a bored out 2.7 with longer piston strokes which has seen a lot of work in the f-150's and the new bronco's.

Also to note, the ecoboost mustang used a garrett twin scroll single turbo as compared to the twin turbo used in the ST.

BTW I'm a little mad but in 2022 they took our BOV away!!

 

[ChargerChallenger]

Since we are touching on the trans issue I'll tag @ChargerChallenger for his experience on his st, provided he wants to join in on the convo.

Also this specific 3.0 debuted in the aviator/explorer and is a variant of the 2.7 ecoboost that was and still is in the f-150s

The 3.0 is basically a bored out 2.7 with longer piston strokes which has seen a lot of work in the f-150's and the new bronco's.

Also to note, the ecoboost mustang used a garrett twin scroll single turbo as compared to the twin turbo used in the ST.

My ST is truly a really incredible SUV that border line drives like a car being it’s rear wheel drive and handles extremely well. The Transmission failure at 13k was due to metal shavings from the internals failures. Ford replaced the whole transmission and she runs every bit as strong if not stronger. And honestly I have run the piss out of this car and I am not embellishing to make me sound like Mr. Bad Ass. The technology on the ST with the Brake performance package and bigger wheel is really remarkable. The ST stops faster and better then my Hellcats and RE no lie. The Adaptive Cruise Control is beyond believable being the car handles high speed driving better than me braking and then acceleration. Once again this is border line conversations I would rather not share but can tell you I drive 95 from DC to Tampa Fl in heavy traffic. I have hit the max speed numerous times the car is limited to and 90-100 driving like no other car with confidence. Changing lanes and having to go around others who hog the left lane the car will adapt to the speeds to brake and control the car as I go by them and then get in front and adapt to the slower car. Unless you actually rode with me or you personally know how to manage the Adaptive Cruise then you won’t believe nor understand. Summing it up the most confident SUV and Fast as well vehicle to date. I have smoked many high end SUVS and even cars she’s a bad ass SUV and bang for buck the best one out there IMO.

 

[1971demon]

If they make something with a 600+ HP turbo 6 that weighs around 3,000 lbs and AWD I'd take a look, but I think that unlikely. I'll be watching what happens with the Vette and that will likely be my next purchase if they keep going the way they have been.

Yup it's sad...but in a couple of months...I'll be 69..the cars I have now...will continue to give me a boner for ten more years...@ 80..I doubt I'll give a rats ass...I've lived through two great muscle car era's

 

[Slowpoke387]

I can tell you that the Ecoboost is a problem platform for Ford. They have a lot of failures prematurely. 4 cyl as well. Longevity-wise they will never touch a N/A V-8. I see them with 100k routinely and they dont hold up well.
The problem I have when people review these type of comparisons is that theyre always new or newish. I would certainly expect them to be awesome, have great power, great mpg. I guess if all that matters is the right now, as new performance. But what really makes it or breaks it for me is down the road. After the warranty is up. That’s what separates the men from the boys. Lots of boys and fewer men when the miles pile up. This trend with smaller displacement turbo power in the name of emissions is creating a glut of extremely unreliable used cars.
Hard pass for me.

 

[2pac]

BTW I'm a little mad but in 2022 they took our BOV away!!

I did not know that, I got a 21 off lot, maybe a good thing, I was thinking of doing a 50/50 recirc as well, any thoughts on recirc vs atmospheric?

 

[Illegal_Demon]

I'd jump on a hybrid AWD setup that used electrification to compliment the 800ish HP V8.

I've been eyeballing the new Explorers for a while. My buddy has an ST and loves it. 400HP with a bump to even close to 500 would be nice in that vehicle.

But this is what I like to call wishcasting...

Tim et al have been pretty clear that they are moving to FULL-ON EV....not V8 with some electric assist.

I for one will pass on all versions of fast golf carts. I am actively looking to amass a nice "pinacle" ICE collection. With select 3 pedal cars in that mix for sure. Fast automatics are great and I love my Demon but HP manual cars have died and almost no one has noticed or cared. Now is the time to scoop up all the top end ICE from 2005+ that you can.

10 years from now you will be (very) happy you did.

You also will have a lot of fun over the next 10 years on that road of happine$$.

 

[jonx96]

I did not know that, I got a 21 off lot, maybe a good thing, I was thinking of doing a 50/50 recirc as well, any thoughts on recirc vs atmospheric?

Atmosphere because of cool turbo noises 😊
But really recirc Is just going to slow the car down. The turbo wheel is going to spin the opposite direction when releasing boost which could lead to more of a boost lag. With the speed density tuning used on the explorer I don’t see a benifet of recirc. Someone has already made a kit to add the bov back. I can’t remember the name of the company.
But I believe you are referring to the turbo smart bov. Which I know is really popular. So I’m not sure on the 50/50 thing. Maybe there’s a reason on them.
I think under low boost the factory recirc even in the 2021. But I’ve only done so much research on this platform since mine isn’t in yet 😤

 

[Speedy!]

Its 2035 for Chevy probably to line up with CA ban on gas cars. Thats 13 years away. A lot can and will happen in that time.

 

[Speedy!]

I updated my post, it's actually 13 years and I'd imagine after the disaster of the Biden admin we'll be back to republicans in charge and a lot of this will fade a way more than likely. Just a hunch on my part obviously.

Quite frankly, if it doesn't, I've built cars before and will build them again if I need to in order to have what I want. No big deal to me.

 

[Boris]

Just curious why all the Explorer ST love? A Durango SRT has 485 HP I believe? Personal preference? Easier tuning possibilities? Not hating. Just wondering.

Because its a twin turbo V6 with 400ish HP.
A tune and they really take off.

 

[Boris]

My ST is truly a really incredible SUV that border line drives like a car being it’s rear wheel drive and handles extremely well. The Transmission failure at 13k was due to metal shavings from the internals failures. Ford replaced the whole transmission and she runs every bit as strong if not stronger. And honestly I have run the piss out of this car and I am not embellishing to make me sound like Mr. Bad Ass. The technology on the ST with the Brake performance package and bigger wheel is really remarkable. The ST stops faster and better then my Hellcats and RE no lie. The Adaptive Cruise Control is beyond believable being the car handles high speed driving better than me braking and then acceleration. Once again this is border line conversations I would rather not share but can tell you I drive 95 from DC to Tampa Fl in heavy traffic. I have hit the max speed numerous times the car is limited to and 90-100 driving like no other car with confidence. Changing lanes and having to go around others who hog the left lane the car will adapt to the speeds to brake and control the car as I go by them and then get in front and adapt to the slower car. Unless you actually rode with me or you personally know how to manage the Adaptive Cruise then you won’t believe nor understand. Summing it up the most confident SUV and Fast as well vehicle to date. I have smoked many high end SUVS and even cars she’s a bad ass SUV and bang for buck the best one out there IMO.
View attachment 59945 View attachment 59946

Im going to use this sales pitch on the wife.
Been trying to talk her into one for a couple of years now.

I talked a sales lady into one and she loves the thing. Kick ass package by Ford. I still think their interiors are meh but I can overlook things when the drivetrain is there.