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Cars being booted at ATCO

Jack_Toepfer

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Trapping 150+ without certain visible safety equipment after being warned by the track was the common denominator...
So they enforced based on convenience...
Sucks either way I guess.
 

Demon1

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NHRA is stuck with a difficult problem. The line needs to be drawn somewhere. Right now it's at 9.99 sec or 135 MPH. We all agree the modern passenger compartment is safer than older technology, but I question survivability in a barrel roll at 130 without a cage and 5 point harness versus at having those at 135. How do you determine where to draw the line? I don't want to cage my Demon. I don't want to drive a day or two to an event and then be told I can't run the car. I do want to be safe. It's a no win situation.
 

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So they enforced based on convenience...
Sucks either way I guess.
Not because of convenience. There were external circumstances beyond the control of the track and the event promoter at play. It wouldn't be appropriate to go into more detail about that at this time. However, there is an amenable remedy for the future moving forward that is in the works as we speak.
 
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Hpindy

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Thread Starter #104
I don't want to drive hours or days and be told I can't run and not given the chance to dial it back to keep under the E.T/MPH .

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Hpindy

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Thread Starter #105
Not because of convenience. There were external circumstances beyond the control of the track and the event promoter at play. It wouldn't be appropriate to go into more detail about that at this time. However, there is an amenable remedy for the future moving forward that is in the works as we speak.
To be honest it's pretty simple . Everyone follow the rules NO exceptions.

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Markp

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Is nothing use at your own risk anymore?
 

Phast Hemi

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NHRA is stuck with a difficult problem. The line needs to be drawn somewhere. Right now it's at 9.99 sec or 135 MPH. We all agree the modern passenger compartment is safer than older technology, but I question survivability in a barrel roll at 130 without a cage and 5 point harness versus at having those at 135. How do you determine where to draw the line? I don't want to cage my Demon. I don't want to drive a day or two to an event and then be told I can't run the car. I do want to be safe. It's a no win situation.
I don't want to drive hours or days and be told I can't run and not given the chance to dial it back to keep under the E.T/MPH .

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Racers were warned and had the opportunity to slow down and stay.

The 9.99 /135 barrier is the current standard. I don't know that I'd want to be in a car in a barrel roll at 50, 100, or 135mph. I think the NHRA rules are to reactive and don't properly account for all the proactive safety built into newer cars that can prevent a barrel roll from occurring to begin with. Their rules are a hodge podge of revisions based on 50 year old group think based on cars that had 5 mph crash bumpers and drum brakes. They seem to lack an open-minded appraisal of current automotive technology.
 

BULL

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I was going to post up what I call the "Camaro Football" from a standing mile event.

I was going to make some point about it, but I figure everyone knows what is at stake.


If for some reason you don't, go find any number of horrific crashes on YouTube.

Watch them, and then watch them again...

Even at a 1/2 mile event, there was death not that long ago.

Yes, many people make many, many passes without issue, but when things go South... times up....
 

BULL

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I'll follow that up with I've told my wife that if something happens at 170+mph, the outcome is not likely to be very good...
 

DRAGRCR

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I'll follow that up with I've told my wife that if something happens at 170+mph, the outcome is not likely to be very good...
I told my Family over and over if that time comes, to throw a party.
 

Jack_Toepfer

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I told my Family over and over if that time comes, to throw a party.
yeah, if you’re trapping 170 you’re doing something right!
(jk)
 

motorhead

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To be honest it's pretty simple . Everyone follow the rules NO exceptions.

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Didn't they tech the cars before letting them run? Seems odd not to set boundaries and limitations in advance.
 

motorhead

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Racers were warned and had the opportunity to slow down and stay.

The 9.99 /135 barrier is the current standard. I don't know that I'd want to be in a car in a barrel roll at 50, 100, or 135mph. I think the NHRA rules are to reactive and don't properly account for all the proactive safety built into newer cars that can prevent a barrel roll from occurring to begin with. Their rules are a hodge podge of revisions based on 50 year old group think based on cars that had 5 mph crash bumpers and drum brakes. They seem to lack an open-minded appraisal of current automotive technology.
Seriously. Heaven forbid they hire engineers to do the proper evaluation. The three tenants of risk management are as follows:

1. Engineering controls (fix the mouse trap);
2. Administrative controls (put up policies to keep people's fingers out of the mouse trap); and
3. PPE (give people gauntlets to protect their fingers).

PPE (roll cage, fire suit, helmet, pants/long sleeves) is often the first step used despite being the line of last resort once the first two are exhausted. Administrative controls (speed and ET thresholds) are most likely conservative based upon a SWAG/fudge factor relative to existing engineering - but will have to be revisited over time (checks and balances). Finally, engineering controls start with the OEM and well that ain't happening with all cars built to a price point under federal regulations.

Hence why you will subscribe to the NHRA's rules as it is their insurance and liability at risk; not yours - so fuck you, your car, and your opinion. Want to go faster than 10.00@135mph? Build a race car capable of it, or try to get away with it and end up butthurt.

Source: Army Safety Officer (including motor vehicle safety and hazardous occurence investigations - so yeah, I am a SME)
 
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Hpindy

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Thread Starter #114
Seriously. Heaven forbid they hire engineers to do the proper evaluation. The three tenants of risk management are as follows:

1. Engineering controls (fix the mouse trap);
2. Administrative controls (put up policies to keep people's fingers out of the mouse trap); and
3. PPE (give people gauntlets to protect their fingers).

PPE (roll cage, fire suit, helmet, pants/long sleeves) is often the first step used despite being the line of last resort once the first two are exhausted. Administrative controls (speed and ET thresholds) are most likely conservative based upon a SWAG/fudge factor relative to existing engineering - but will have to be revisited over time (checks and balances). Finally, engineering controls start with the OEM and well that ain't happening with all cars built to a price point under federal regulations.

Hence why you will subscribe to the NHRA's rules as it is their insurance and liability at risk; not yours - so fuck you, your car, and your opinion. Want to go faster than 10.00@135mph? Build a race car capable of it, or try to get away with it and end up butthurt.

Source: Army Safety Officer (including motor vehicle safety and hazardous occurence investigations - so yeah, I am a SME)
SME

Smelly
Meat
Eater
?

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motorhead

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Hpindy

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Thread Starter #116
For the record I'm just as guilty as most people for "bending" the rules ( come on folks 8's is a bit too far) . I push the limit but once asked to slow down I will . I'm actually thinking I should make a "10.0@135" tune for such occasions.

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motorhead

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Oh, another thing: Don't assume someone competent actually designed and built your late-model car. At work we very often find ourselves doing risk management exercises for vehicles that don't perform as required after spending a million a pop. Your Demon body was built on the same production line as a base V6 car - using the same parts made by the lowest bidder assembled by a person who may or may not take pride in their work.

However, the guy who builds your roll cage? His reputation and livelihood hinges on your life and ability to pass tech.
 

motorhead

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For the record I'm just as guilty as most people for "bending" the rules ( come on folks 8's is a bit too far) . I push the limit but once asked to slow down I will . I'm actually thinking I should make a "10.0@135" tune for such occasions.

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I am not shitting on anyone person here - we all bend/break rules. It is just a question of judgment - where I trust mine, not yours - but that is a skewed scale based on the individual.
 

Markp

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I am not shitting on anyone person here - we all bend/break rules. It is just a question of judgment - where I trust mine, not yours - but that is a skewed scale based on the individual.
As long as the car beside me is safe to go down the track I don't care if he is driving butt naked without a helmet. That is there choice if they wreck and die well they wreck and die.
 
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Hpindy

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Thread Starter #120
I am not shitting on anyone person here - we all bend/break rules. It is just a question of judgment - where I trust mine, not yours - but that is a skewed scale based on the individual.
I agree with you 100% . I know what I'm capable of and know my limitations . Not anyone else's.
I have a question ..... So we know "events" must follow the rules...... But what about private track rentals? Or is ir over all policy no matter what ?

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