Thermostat delete

[4 Tire Freedom!]

Any thoughts about removing the 220 degree thermostat all together? My thoughts are that here in Florida we never get cold enough temperatures that warrants it.

 

[MJS73]

Quite possibly the worst idea I've heard all year.

 

[4 Tire Freedom!]

Quite possibly the worst idea I've heard all year.

Your reason please?

 

[MJS73]

Your reason please?

It's less work for me if you just read this
https://www.hellcatforum.org/threads/thermostat-delete.11521/
Not that you need any more reasons but the check engine light, poor engine performance and terrible fuel mileage should also be deterrents.

 

[TraxMoe]

That's a great Idea , too bad I didn't think about it first ! While you're at it there isn't any need for antifreeze either and that will save you even more money. WHEN YOUR DAMNED MOTOR SHELLS OUT !

 

[EricG]

Easy thing to do is to swap in a 185 and take out the stock 203 - which yes lets the car run up at 220 alot of the time in the warm season. Even with the stock fan settings and everything, the car definitely runs cooler at almost all times with a 185, and the 185 doesn't cause a check engine light to come on either.

https://www.amazon.com/Jet-Performance-10183-JET-Thermostat/dp/B001CHG19O/ref=sr_1_2?crid=39KF850RN1YS4&keywords=jet+10183&qid=1659818987&sprefix=jet+10183,aps,132&sr=8-2

 

[Blickie]

Any thoughts about removing the 220 degree thermostat all together? My thoughts are that here in Florida we never get cold enough temperatures that warrants it.

Never take out the factory stat and never totally remove the stat. The stat is a flow-control device that makes sure the coolant has time to pick up the heat and time to give it up in the radiator. No stat means you can actually overheat a motor and not know it. If the coolant is high-flowing through the motor, it won't have time to pick up the engine heat and then give up heat in the radiator.

A lower stat affects the expansion dimensions of the block and thus wears the rings and cylinder walls more, and any other area of the block that has clearances.

220 degrees in these motors is fine. with a 50/50 mix of antifreeze (+45 degrees) added to the 21 PSI Pressure Cap (+63 degrees), the new Boiling Point is north of 310 degrees.

Leave the factory 195 Stat alone.

Best!

 

[Magnified]

Do not do it. For the various reasons stated above.

Was there something specific about the performance of your car that was alarming you and making you think this might be a good fix?

 

[EricG]

Never take out the factory stat and never totally remove the stat. The stat is a flow-control device that makes sure the coolant has time to pick up the heat and time to give it up in the radiator. No stat means you can actually overheat a motor and not know it because is the coolant is high-flowing through the motor and not picking up or giving up heat.

A lower stat affects the expansion dimensions of the block and thus wears the rings and cylinder walls more, and any other area of the block that has clearances.

220 degrees in these motors is fine. with a 50/50 mix of antifreeze (+45 degrees) added to the 21 PSI Pressure Cap (+63 degrees), the new Boiling Point is north of 310 degrees.

Leave the factory 195 Stat alone.

Best!

In theory this is true, but you are also talking about the variance in temperatures between the winter and the summer that these cars runs at too, is that affecting the expansion of the block...etc? No need to worry about all this stuff, it's very old school thinking. If a 185 tstat was a big problem, would it be a part of all the factory modification packages for the new Power Brokers program? Because it is. People have been running 185 tstats since these modern Hemis came out in 2005 without any problems.

 

[Blickie]

In theory this is true, but you are also talking about the variance in temperatures between the winter and the summer that these cars runs at too, is that affecting the expansion of the block...etc? No need to worry about all this stuff, it's very old school thinking. If a 185 tstat was a big problem, would it be a part of all the factory modification packages for the new Power Brokers program? Because it is. People have been running 185 tstats since these modern Hemis came out in 2005 without any problems.

Yes, I am aware the Hemi Packages offer a 185 stat, but that does not change the physics of block expansion based on temperature and the end result. This is still current thinking; not old school at all.

The fact that rings and cylinder walls wear more with a lower stat has been known for 50 + years. There are even charts and tables about the subject.

 

[EricG]

Yes, I am aware the Hemi Packages offer a 185 stat, but that does not change the physics of block expansion based on temperature and the end result. This is still current thinking; not old school at all.

The fact that rings and cylinder walls wear more with a lower stat has been known for 50 + years. There are even charts and tables about the subject.

Yes, but I think you need to be down in the 170s or below before that really starts to matter. A 185 will still keep this guy at 200 degrees most of the time, but not the 220 that the stock 203 allows. The only reason stock tstats are 203 nowadays is for emissions, well that and cooling systems are so robust and can work at and hold much higher temps than generations ago. In my experience, a 185 still shows almost the exact same oil operating temperatures as the stock tstat, unless you are constantly driving on the highway, then the oil temp can go below 200 which I agree is a little low.

 

[Blickie]

Yes, but I think you need to be down in the 170s or below before that really starts to matter. A 185 will still keep this guy at 200 degrees most of the time, but not the 220 that the stock 203 allows. The only reason stock tstats are 203 nowadays is for emissions, well that and cooling systems are so robust and can work at and hold much higher temps than generations ago. In my experience, a 185 still shows almost the exact same oil operating temperatures as the stock tstat, unless you are constantly driving on the highway, then the oil temp can go below 200 which I agree is a little low.

It's long-held that it's never a good ideal to put a lower stat from factory for any reason.

The amount of HP that may be achieved from a lower stat is offset by the ring and pistion wear over time and other bearing clearances. The amount of block expansion is important to the entire engine. If you want to keep the car, it's a bad trade off.

 

[TraxMoe]

It's long-held that it's never a good ideal to put a lower stat from factory for any reason.

Long-held idea or belief from whom ? The discussion is for only 15 degrees or so. If that is the case the motors would explode when running on the track and the temps get over 230 degrees. The Coefficient of expansion for various metals between cast iron ( 0.0000058" in/deg ), chromemoly ring ( 0.0000033" in/deg ) and aluminum ( 0.0000131" in/deg ) piston sleeves can be made out of ductile iron, steel, aluminum, iron, those are a lot of clearances to consider for only 15 deg so expansion rates can vary greatly. Hell the combustion in these engines is about 2800 deg f. and the EGT might be somewhere around 1200 deg f. .. are you saying that running the car on alcohol is bad for the motor too ? or maybe methanol that runs the motor cooler ? What is your opinion on running the car to lean ( oops that ICE motor just melted the pistons down ) on boosted motor the piston ring gaps are looser than on an NA motor to account for the pressures and the additional heat. The multi viscosity oils accommodate a wide range of oil temperatures to provide lubrication to the bearings and other moving parts in the motor. with running synthetic the lubrication doesn't break down like it did with strictly petroleum oils

 

[vortecd]

Guess we all have different ideas and that is fine. Do your own research and do what you are comfortable with

As far as the OP goes, do not run the car without a thermostat

 

[Blickie]

 

[TraxMoe]

Isn't it contradictory to use the data from an aviation air cooled engine ? This is why aviation air cooled motors require an overhaul every 1500 hours or so . When you're flying in zero temperatures you need to close the cowl flaps to keep the engine from getting too cold. Yes I would agree, there is considerably more wear when the engines are cold, but you are talking about 40 to 160 deg range. oil cavitation is a bigger concern on the air cooled engine at startup, and the lack of oil for lubrication of the cylinder walls when the engine is cold has a detrimental on wear. It's always a good idea to let the oil temperature get to temp before driving the car's hard

When was the last time a car's engine was overhauled at 1500 hours ? wouldn't that be like around 90,000 miles ?

 

[Blickie]

Isn't it contradictory to use the data from an aviation air cooled engine ? This is why aviation air cooled motors require an overhaul every 1500 hours or so . When you're flying in zero temperatures you need to close the cowl flaps to keep the engine from getting too cold. Yes I would agree, there is considerably more wear when the engines are cold, but you are talking about 40 to 160 deg range. oil cavitation is a bigger concern on the air cooled engine at startup, and the lack of oil for lubrication of the cylinder walls when the engine is cold has a detrimental on wear. It's always a good idea to let the oil temperature get to temp before driving the car's hard

When was the last time a car's engine was overhauled at 1500 hours ? wouldn't that be like around 90,000 miles ?

Then do your own research. This is a demonstrated, proven & accepted fact for decades.

 

[stonewall]

Never take out the factory stat and never totally remove the stat. The stat is a flow-control device that makes sure the coolant has time to pick up the heat and time to give it up in the radiator. No stat means you can actually overheat a motor and not know it. If the coolant is high-flowing through the motor, it won't have time to pick up the engine heat and then give up heat in the radiator.

A lower stat affects the expansion dimensions of the block and thus wears the rings and cylinder walls more, and any other area of the block that has clearances.

220 degrees in these motors is fine. with a 50/50 mix of antifreeze (+45 degrees) added to the 21 PSI Pressure Cap (+63 degrees), the new Boiling Point is north of 310 degrees.

Leave the factory 195 Stat alone.

Best!

A + you are spot on.

 

[Diboblo]

Yes, I am aware the Hemi Packages offer a 185 stat, but that does not change the physics of block expansion based on temperature and the end result. This is still current thinking; not old school at all.

The fact that rings and cylinder walls wear more with a lower stat has been known for 50 + years. There are even charts and tables about the subject.

I ran a 180, in my 6.1, with a Spartan Max cam, ported heads, etc. Never suffered any issues, with wear... and yes, I did my own work. Had the engine apart a couple of times, for upgrades and it always looked pretty tasty.

Not saying there my not be issues, for some... but these engines are more robust than others.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[DavidKFla]

Why would anyone consider taking T-stat out of 1 of these cars?

Let's just fuvk it all up.