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Decision Time on a Replacement Tire

RedEye19FL

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#1
Hi Folks. I punctured the sidewall on one of my Pirelli 305 All-Seasons and it's not repairable. I only have 1800 miles on these tires, but I hate them. Would you bite the bullet and go with 315's for the rear or, would you just replace with the original tire and wait until they wear out? I have a widebody RedEye. Thanks.
 


John G.

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#2
Definitely replace them. These cars NEED better tires, especially in the rear. And if the puncture is in one of the rears, you can't replace just one tire.
 


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#3
I'm not much of a corner carver so the original Pirelli's suited me fine for the front.
I've run the Nitto NT05R on the street for most of my cars life. I really like them. They hook probably as well as can be expected for a 20" dia tire on an 800hp car.
They're not great rain tires but if you get caught out you can at least get back home w them.
 


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#4
I doubt you will find any fans of the Pirelli All-Seasons. They are dangerous in the back if you ask me. Wake that car up and get a better tire for the rear. I went with 315's on the back of my Charger non-widebody and left the OEM all season Pirelli's on the front. Have been so much happier with the car and this combo. I have no idea what your wide-body Challenger can handle for back tire fitment but go big and give up on all season tires.
 


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It depends. Do you want to retain the capability to travel in excess of 186 mph safely? I haven't looked much at the 305 stuff yet, but on my old narrow body car I could only find ONE tire, other than the stock offering, that was available in the stock sizing, rated 186+ (as opposed to rated UP TO 186) and also had the correct load rating (load rating on the narrow body is "106" and on the widebody is "107"). That tire was the Michelin PS4 (not to be confused with the PS4S...which I was not able to find in stock sizing). The PS4 had better traction and met all other criteria but developed a terrible back-n-forth oscillation under heavy acceleration when speeds climbed above 80mph. So I went back to the PZero summer tire. I also wanted to stick with the stock sizing because at the time I wasn't interested in changing wheels and I wanted my sidewalls to stand correctly instead of being bulged or poked.

As I said before, I don't know whether another tire exists for the 305 section tire that also has a (107Y) speed/load rating. And that may not matter, to a lot of people it doesn't. But I didn't want to give up that capability so I was in a tight box.

You may already be aware of all of this, but it took me awhile to figure it all out. Hoping the info helps.

Untitled.png
 


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#6
HJR,

Some good information! I've ordered some Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires for custom wheels for my Hellcat REWB - hopefully they will be shipped soon. Deciding which tires to try on the new wheels was a journey down tire information lane - and while I spent a lot of time looking for whatever reasons I did not read a clear explanation of the nomenclature you've listed pertaining to the load rating, or the speed rating.

I'm getting the 4S tires in front in size 315/30-20 on 11" rims custom designed to accommodate the six caliper Brembo's. This is a little smaller diameter tire than my stock all season Pirelli's. The Michelin 4S tires are labeled 315/30ZR20/XL (104Y) on the michelinman.com webpage. You said the Z is left in there to connote "in excess of 149 mph", and the Y after 104 means "in excess of 189 mph", which is great although I'll never get there. The 104 load rating of 1,984 lbs...well, dang it, you've said my car should have tires with a 107 load rating of 2,149 lbs. These 104 load rated tires do have XL (there are two models for the same size tire - not sure why). I got this below off a website explaining XL;

"Reinforced or XL (Extra Load) tires are specially reinforced tires. They can carry heavier loads than tires of the same size. Reinforced tires are designated on the sidewall by the letters "RF"; extra load tires with the letters "XL." Reinforced and XL tires require higher inflation pressures than standard tires."

Am I making a mistake in not ensuring any new tires have a load factor of 107, or perhaps higher? Does it matter if I'm not going to put four people and a trunk load of stuff in the car? How about running the car hard on a road course? Questions, questions...they never seem to end. Turn over one new to me subject rock and there are ever more questions.

I imagine a sharp lawyer, if I had a blow out on the street and hurt somebody, would say I was negligent in not ensuring I had 107 rated tires on my car.

Best,

Finface
 


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#7
I think I answered my own question. HJR, you are correct the stock Pirelli 305/35-20 tires on REWB Challengers have a load rating of 107.

But, it was an option to buy the summer Pirelli 305/35-20 tires and they have the 104Y rating.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=P+Zero&partnum=035YR0P0

I must be on solid ground getting any close sized tire with a 104Y rating.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #8
It depends. Do you want to retain the capability to travel in excess of 186 mph safely? I haven't looked much at the 305 stuff yet, but on my old narrow body car I could only find ONE tire, other than the stock offering, that was available in the stock sizing, rated 186+ (as opposed to rated UP TO 186) and also had the correct load rating (load rating on the narrow body is "106" and on the widebody is "107"). That tire was the Michelin PS4 (not to be confused with the PS4S...which I was not able to find in stock sizing). The PS4 had better traction and met all other criteria but developed a terrible back-n-forth oscillation under heavy acceleration when speeds climbed above 80mph. So I went back to the PZero summer tire. I also wanted to stick with the stock sizing because at the time I wasn't interested in changing wheels and I wanted my sidewalls to stand correctly instead of being bulged or poked.

As I said before, I don't know whether another tire exists for the 305 section tire that also has a (107Y) speed/load rating. And that may not matter, to a lot of people it doesn't. But I didn't want to give up that capability so I was in a tight box.

You may already be aware of all of this, but it took me awhile to figure it all out. Hoping the info helps.

View attachment 28165
Thanks HRJ! You have the exact same car as me!! I'm seriously thinking of going with either Michelin or Continental in 315's. Both have the "Y" designation. Now I'm wondering if having the 315's on the front would give me handling problems, like for instance, plowing on turns. Anyone out there running 315's on the front?? I would like to do all 4 because of tire rotation. Thanks again!!
 


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#9
If I was replacing tires for the OEM’s for the street, I would buy four 315/35 PS4S’s.

I have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt any darting left and right upon WOT is a rear alignment (toe) problem. Set it correctly and the left and right mysterious problem is gone. NEVER, NEVER is just the tires unless one is defective for some reason.
 


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#10
I think I answered my own question. HJR, you are correct the stock Pirelli 305/35-20 tires on REWB Challengers have a load rating of 107.

But, it was an option to buy the summer Pirelli 305/35-20 tires and they have the 104Y rating.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=P+Zero&partnum=035YR0P0

I must be on solid ground getting any close sized tire with a 104Y rating.
I have the stock summer Pirelli tires on my widebody and they're (107Y).
 


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#11
I have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt any darting left and right upon WOT is a rear alignment (toe) problem. Set it correctly and the left and right mysterious problem is gone. NEVER, NEVER is just the tires unless one is defective for some reason.
I don't know if we're talking about the same thing, but mine started upon fitment of the Michelin and then quit when I bolted the Pirellis back up. No alignment changes at any time.It was a side-to-side rocking motion under WOT and only after some mph was happening.

I really think it was due to sidewall construction/stiffness differences. And of course, it was a PS4 tire, not a PS4S tire. The PS4S might be a happier tire on the fat ass Hellcat.
 


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#12
It depends. Do you want to retain the capability to travel in excess of 186 mph safely?
One way of looking at it but how many are really going to go over 186 mph? Even at a 1/2 speed run unless the car is modified you would not get there
 


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#13
For my daily driving I like the Nitto 555RII drag radials. Great in the rain and you can get on it way more without the car getting out of shape
I'm a believer of having the right tire for the right occasion. Going to the drag strip I run M/T street R's. If I were to go to a road coarse I would buy another set of tires and wheels to use for that. If I were looking to go 200mph somewhere I would have tires for that. The cars I have driven in the summer and winter get snow tires in the winter

There is not a 1 tire fits all. You should buy tires on for what you are going to do with them
 


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#14
I don't know if we're talking about the same thing, but mine started upon fitment of the Michelin and then quit when I bolted the Pirellis back up. No alignment changes at any time.It was a side-to-side rocking motion under WOT and only after some mph was happening.

I really think it was due to sidewall construction/stiffness differences. And of course, it was a PS4 tire, not a PS4S tire. The PS4S might be a happier tire on the fat ass Hellcat.
It seems to be the construction or size, I agree. Actually, there is not difference btw a PS4 and 4s. I would go with the tire that comes in the size you want there. Here is my story. I can’t feel the same “darting” with a set of Toyo 305/35 R888R’s on the 11” OEM’s. Smaller size for-sure, different construction I suppose. But strange, when I bolt the big Cup 2’s on 12” wide wheels, it may be the tires or wheel widths OR relative hook up, but, wow, I feel the problem. Happened on a Saturday - Sunday at Road America this summer first time. First day the skinny tires. Seemed to work fine. It seemed just a bit off and did not inspire confidence at high speeds, but I could not point to a real cause. Sunday, used the big tires. Oh shit! Thought the first straight was just cold as was the tires. It pretty much sucked all day. We had changed the alignments and did not know about the big changes in Toe when adjusting for camber. Came back to the home track - same alignment, with the Cup 2’s and thought it would crash it was so bad. I bolted on the big PS4’s, at home but again did not feel it so much. But, I was able to try it many times as WOT attempts on the track. Okay, now the difference btw what we each did about it. I did check and CHANGE the alignment. The Toe was off. Changed the alignment and the problem disappeared with the Cup 2’s. We can see it in the previous videos and certainly the data and lap times after we returned to the same track, just changed toe settings. Now I am further refining the alignment to what I believe is much closer to what you drag racers have it set at. With that Toe in check (don’t take much adjustment), it don’t dart with any of my wheel/tire combos. FYI, IMO on another front bringing the camber even 1/2 degree more flat even makes a noticeable difference in hooking with the wider tires. Can’t again say for-sure until we get to the track and see some sector times. Since the big rears wear don’t give a darn about a compensation in camber for cornering, I am putting them down flat. I’ll keep that toe correct. Just had AAD ship me some additional tabs that are off their chart to get the toe where I want it now. Because this Redeye is one bitch to tie down! Much different from the Hellcat IMO. Good luck to you too!
 


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#15
Definitely replace them. These cars NEED better tires, especially in the rear. And if the puncture is in one of the rears, you can't replace just one tire.
You. can rotate the fronts to the rear only 1800 miles on tires.
 


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#16
I have the stock summer Pirelli tires on my widebody and they're (107Y).
HRJ,

I swear...just when you think you got something understood!

With regard to the Michelin PS4S tires and that michelinman.com link where I got the 104Y info, I noticed there are TWO listings to "buy" 4S tires - for what would appear to be the same dang tire. They do have different model numbers, but everything else about the tires seems the same. No separate load index ratings on that buy page - the load index ratings if they are different aren't displayed. So what's that all about??

ARE there two models of your summer Pirelli tires - one model rated 104Y and another one 107Y? Why would a company do that? Someone seeking to buy OEM replacement summer Pirelli tires could easily forget about, or not know about, the 107Y rating and buy what looks exactly like their OEM tires on tirerack.com - but rated 104Y. That might present a safety hazard.

Fast forward to the confusing scene of a purple Challenger Red Eye Wide Body, previously loaded with people and some luggage, consumed by fire by the side of a road. The people are standing there looking at the car and their belongings burning up. They all have agreed the car seemed to have had four simultaneous tire blowouts for no apparent reason. Bits and pieces of rubber sidewall behind the car support this assessment. Fortunately for them, the simultaneous explosive blowout of the tires kept the car going straight down the road, sparking 4th of July-like sparklers while grinding down the newly purchased custom wheel rims of the avid Hellcatforum.org member - until the people could bail out as it screeched to a smoking stop. Unfortunately, the prolonged sparking inside the wheel wells ignited oil fumes emanating from an aftermarket oil catch can *nod to DGatzby's catch can thread*, which had ruptured from the combined shock wave of the exploding tires. The impressive catch can oil fume fire had rapidly spread via ruptured brake fluid lines to engulf the entire vehicle.

Ambulance pulls up, followed by ambulance chasing attorney. He looks at the scene, turns to the owner of the car and says, "Looks like the county is going to bill you big time for those 300' long furrows your wheel rims dug in the asphalt, plus the giant melted spot where the car lies. I'm a liability specialist!"

He looks over at the passengers. "Any of you suffering? Any aches and pains? Any emotional trauma? Expecting any long term ill-effects?"

They all nod eagerly. He turns to the owner and says, "I sure hope your tires had the correct load index rating. If not, you're f*#ked! Insurance won't cover it."

The owner looks shocked, and then says, "They were 104Y rated high performance summer tires! They can go faster than 186 mph, and I was only doing 60!"

The attorney says, "I know cars. Your car specificed 107Y tires. It's called negligence, Mister." He turns to the passengers. "Any of you feeling so poorly you're anticipating long term trauma, and would like to seek punitive damages for negligence?"

They all nod eagerly. The attorney peers again at the burning hulk. "Is that a catch can I see?" The owner slowly nods.

"I thought so. More negligence! I always tell people they're NEVER worth the extra 37 horsepower."
 


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#17
ARE there two models of your summer Pirelli tires - one model rated 104Y and another one 107Y? Why would a company do that?
There's a PZero summer tire in 305/35/20 with a (104Y) speed/load rating that was developed for Ferrari. Not exactly sure which model. The (107Y) version was developed for the fatass Hellcats that we drive.

The attorney says, "I know cars. Your car specificed 107Y tires."
To be completely accurate........"(107Y) tires". Parenthesis are important in that context. ;)
 


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#18
Hi Folks. I punctured the sidewall on one of my Pirelli 305 All-Seasons and it's not repairable. I only have 1800 miles on these tires, but I hate them. Would you bite the bullet and go with 315's for the rear or, would you just replace with the original tire and wait until they wear out? I have a widebody RedEye. Thanks.
First off, what are you wanting to with the car? Cruise? Street race? Quarter mile? Road racing? Live in a wet and cold, snowy climate? Daily drive it? Need to decide this first, then decide what tire to get. I had the all seasons at first (what was on the car when bought - good general tire in the wet, but you aren't getting anywhere near the performance you can out of them.
 


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#19
There's a PZero summer tire in 305/35/20 with a (104Y) speed/load rating that was developed for Ferrari. Not exactly sure which model. The (107Y) version was developed for the fatass Hellcats that we drive.



To be completely accurate........"(107Y) tires". Parenthesis are important in that context. ;)
Those parentheses are critical. That's the "over 186" indicator...
 


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#20
The real question is do you want to run a drag radial out back or not? There's pros and cons, but to me that is the biggest filter.
 




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